When I joined this site, the members really helped me get involved and it's still the most involving and participatory online community I visit. I love the chat and the people there. But here's a few of my ideas regarding community spirit:

Since the beginning of time communities have developed and evolved. Essentially though, communitas remains if they are linked by collective identity and cooperation working on that. Although experiencing change can unsettle people, it is never a realistic threat to a good community, because things always come back to the strong community core principles: for example when new policy, practice or even personnel are introduced either most people will reject it, in which case it will fail to become established and was never a problem.. or most people will accept it, in which case it becomes a communal norm and is not a problem. This is also known as progression. Sometimes this just happens automatically and sometimes it requires a wholly public deliberative process, through which all interest groups can be heard and people can make their own minds up.

Basically what I am trying to say is: blaming the contest, only serves to iconize it. Like Kieren outlined, it makes a great drama out of something that would otherwise develop alongside the core community that people come back to- which is made up of the 'regulars' and other associated people, brought together by their desire to correspond with each other and their interest in the ESC/Europe. People who say the contest is killing the chat undermime the strength of the chat itself- they don't have to enter the contest if they don't want to, they can even ignore it.. and if the core community stays true to chat then people who come to the site only to enquire 'when does the show start?' or fuss about voting will be ignored and will fail to establish themselves. That is the power of community. If you can't fit in with the majority of members of a community, you won't integrate! That, I think, demonstrates how unrealistic it is to think that there is a threat posed by contest dissidents and members who won't chat. They will come, but they will never conquer. Much more troublesome in my eyes are the people who try control things because they are unsatisfied with them. I understand that they may think that they have good intentions and think they're advocates for the community.. but by not implementing the deliberative process- transparently discussing issues with everybody as Jonny mentioned- it more likely sets things out on their terms, it's sorta selfish. And that is more detrimental to chat, because you cannot control a collective.. you must allow it to develop naturally and progressively--> solidarity in the community. It's a bit of a paradoxical outlook to think that the way to encourage site participation is to control how that participation happens or how people may comment!

So people can cancel contests, they can ban users, they can rip the site apart and blame it on me if they like.. but then who really ruined the site? Think about it.

well at some points i agree with u Dingo but the contest already gave harm to chat.believe it or not gossips,accusations,etc happened behind the editions.we got carried away n some forgot that it is for fun,some forgot the meaning of respect,etc.i know ppl did this not the contest but we gotta cool down with a break imo as we cant react like adults at times or let this thing effect our relationship mostly in a negative way.ignoring the contest n comin only to chat is easy,it would keep things safe but wont fix it.i cant see suffered members comin bak to chat.what is done is done n theres no guarantee that it wont repeat.after all if its for fun-not a life or death thing, givin a break shouldnt cause a drama either

Just join a proper OSC that actually keeps running to keep you further entertained. Or even start one yourself. Less drama that way perhaps, not that I would know of the drama here anyway.

I am in agreeance.

I personally think a vote should have been used. I think asking the people who visit the chat regularly concerning this issue would have been the best decision, personally. The trouble is, when senior people make decisions without consulting anybody it starts to lead to the whole "Us and them" mentality, which isn't healthy. The fact that the thread was closed within the same day it was posted was just furthering this problem, because people weren't allowed to express their views on the matter, which is just going to anger people more and have the opposite effect to the desired one.

Personally I think making decisions without any transparency or consultation of regular members will just build resentment and at the end of the day, instead of strengthening the use of the chat, it'll make it more insignificant as people will get pissed off and not want to come anymore.

I'm just saying I don't think its fair for people in higher power to make authoritarian decisions without at least asking people, because if thats going to be the case from now on then alot of people will really question whether they want to be here or not.

I am somewhere in the middle about all this.
I understand feelings have been hurt and people have been made to feel 'guilty' about certain people winning or not the contest and in that sense I can see why the contest should be postponed for a while in the hope that people will be more mature about it when it starts again.
On the other hand, being one of the few people who started this contest, it makes me feel very sad and upset that some people's childish behaviour (and it doesn't matter if I like them or not, because I do) can have such an impact on the site as a whole.
Say, for example, that a couple of the older members have a problem and they use the chat to fight and others get involved in it and it becomes like a war-zone in there...should the chat be stopped, too?
I know my example isn't that good but it's what came to my mind right now (and I just woke up a little while ago ).
My point is that a site, any site, in my opinion should rise above the members' problems/pettiness/immaturity unless those things affect most of its members.
But I believe that the huge percentage of the people here do NOT think like that, they understand the contest is a game for fun and in a way they/we're made to 'pay' for someone's tantrums.
As for people coming to the site only for the contest I honestly don't think that's true. Sure we make an extra effort to be here for the results but that's normal and I don't consider it a bad thing..after all does everyone go to a site for the exact same reasons? Someone may be coming here to make friends, someone else to talk about eurovision and so on.
There are members of this site who never took part in the contest and yet, they keep coming. So what if a new member makes an effort to come to chat because of the contest? I would think that's a good thing.
Finally, I'd like to add that in the middle of some personal problems I had lately, and when I didn't really feel like talking to anyone, the contest was one of the things that kept me on here and offered me some fun...I know it sounds selfish but it's how it was.

I feel that the 23 people taking part in edition 12 are the people - as Mina says - who "do NOT" take the contest too seriously, we see it as fun, an entertaining addition to our fortnights. A chance to have a bit of fun with some lovely people. The entire reason we want to have a contest here and not elsewhere, as Layla suggested, is because we get to do it with people we consider to be our friends, friends we have gained prior to the contest. Doing it with friends seems to be the most felicitous circumstance to do it in.

I totally agree with Jonny. We are impassioned. An efflux from the chat seems even more inevitable to me now.

whoa thx dingo, jonny for ur words...
101% agreement

Okey guys , before the site is destroyed completely , lets make a new beginning , friendly , warm , democratic , the way we'd love it again. I think its the only solution..

When u have a messy salad , u can't eat just the yummy parts of it. You either have to throw it to the bin , or make a new one , with the ingredients u like. IMO.

Best salad recipy :
Just put these ingredients in.. : friends , positive energy and fun
Bon appetit

I'm the hippie here right now - people, live in da peace! The most important here is to have fun, isn't it?
So less drama then!

Peace, bros 'n' sis!

In my opinion it is a good idea to have a short break from the contest, for 2 or 3 weeks. I always thought there should have been a cap on the number of contests we have, and there was originally supposed to be a limit of one contest a month. The most important rule in such a cap would be to have a "cooling off" period after a contest, where we wait for at least a week before we can submit a song for the next contest. That way we would be allowing ourselves time to stop thinking about it for a while.

I do want to point out, however, that discussions should be made and it is not fair to decide things for the group, particularly with a matter that concerns everyone.

jonny,mina,kieren,chris p,chris e u have pointed out very important things in ur txts n i totally agree with u all.actually im in the middle like mina said n dont support it to become a them n us thing like jonny said.but as i really dont take it seriously-tho i love it for the same reasons u have,not competing for a while wouldnt kill me.but i wanna make smt clear:im sayin ok just because its a break moreover because its about the contest.if it had been about smt else-more serious i mean,id react totally different as we all have a right to express our feelings,make decisions,etc.we r not lambs goin with the flow ofc.even these posts leave me in the middle caus we discuss it in a great-friendly way but also make it too long.meh i dont like it,we all have a correct point but this is too much fuss.so the best explanation comes from flyer alex for me.thank u n bravo for summin up my thoughts,we really need a fresh start,actually im in need of it.plus i prefer to see my friends back instead of another edition.might not be easy but its worth trying.n finally this is not esctoday.com,we can still react,defend,discuss,etc.n most important thing is what is done or efforts for doin smt is for-us-,i believe-know.

Well , i hope u like my salad recipy
Even if i cannot be a regular member anymore , i believe and hope that there must be a final and peaceful solution to the problems.

I hope these lyrics are suitable :
"Just remember in the winter ,
far beneath the bitter snow ,
lies the seed that with the sun's love ,
in the spring becomes the rose"

And never forget : friends always make the problems look tiny

Can I just make it clear that I do really enjoy the contest.

I'm not being a mean spirited old goat, I was just following orders by posting that thread and that I do agree with a little break from the contest.

Well , there is one thing i disagree with jw. We use "shalom" most times when we meet someone. Now u should say "le hitra'ot".
All the rest things u pointed were congratulationsable (Y)

SHIT
My jew friends are liers
If only Solico hadent deleted me from msn

and WHY does it always has to end up with such a long explanation AFTERWARDS....

cant we all have these details and infos in the first post of a thread...?

would help a lot for the future communication...

but now you've read JW's message haven't you? God...

and I also agree with having a break. I can see how difficult it is for people who haven't been in the chat recently to get our point about the increase of people only coming to the chat for the contest's sake. But that is the truth and an ugly progress at the moment, it is so obvious that people only gather to the chat to look at contest news and results. Look, I just logged in now and there are 17 people on the chat - and WHY? tsk. That's even more than the amount of chatters every day this week togheter. And as JW mentioned, this obvious development was noticed and came across some of us including me when the 10th edition was ongoing.