•   days until the Eurovision Song Contest Final in Liverpool!

After Edition 12 uncensored.

  1. Dingo "Who's Online" page Fan#1

    When I joined this site, the members really helped me get involved and it's still the most involving and participatory online community I visit. I love the chat and the people there. But here's a few of my ideas regarding community spirit:

    Since the beginning of time communities have developed and evolved. Essentially though, communitas remains if they are linked by collective identity and cooperation working on that. Although experiencing change can unsettle people, it is never a realistic threat to a good community, because things always come back to the strong community core principles: for example when new policy, practice or even personnel are introduced either most people will reject it, in which case it will fail to become established and was never a problem.. or most people will accept it, in which case it becomes a communal norm and is not a problem. This is also known as progression. Sometimes this just happens automatically and sometimes it requires a wholly public deliberative process, through which all interest groups can be heard and people can make their own minds up.

    Basically what I am trying to say is: blaming the contest, only serves to iconize it. Like Kieren outlined, it makes a great drama out of something that would otherwise develop alongside the core community that people come back to- which is made up of the 'regulars' and other associated people, brought together by their desire to correspond with each other and their interest in the ESC/Europe. People who say the contest is killing the chat undermime the strength of the chat itself- they don't have to enter the contest if they don't want to, they can even ignore it.. and if the core community stays true to chat then people who come to the site only to enquire 'when does the show start?' or fuss about voting will be ignored and will fail to establish themselves. That is the power of community. If you can't fit in with the majority of members of a community, you won't integrate! That, I think, demonstrates how unrealistic it is to think that there is a threat posed by contest dissidents and members who won't chat. They will come, but they will never conquer. Much more troublesome in my eyes are the people who try control things because they are unsatisfied with them. I understand that they may think that they have good intentions and think they're advocates for the community.. but by not implementing the deliberative process- transparently discussing issues with everybody as Jonny mentioned- it more likely sets things out on their terms, it's sorta selfish. And that is more detrimental to chat, because you cannot control a collective.. you must allow it to develop naturally and progressively--> solidarity in the community. It's a bit of a paradoxical outlook to think that the way to encourage site participation is to control how that participation happens or how people may comment!

    So people can cancel contests, they can ban users, they can rip the site apart and blame it on me if they like.. but then who really ruined the site? Think about it.
  2. Almila i am what i am

    well at some points i agree with u Dingo but the contest already gave harm to chat.believe it or not gossips,accusations,etc happened behind the editions.we got carried away n some forgot that it is for fun,some forgot the meaning of respect,etc.i know ppl did this not the contest but we gotta cool down with a break imo as we cant react like adults at times or let this thing effect our relationship mostly in a negative way.ignoring the contest n comin only to chat is easy,it would keep things safe but wont fix it.i cant see suffered members comin bak to chat.what is done is done n theres no guarantee that it wont repeat.after all if its for fun-not a life or death thing, givin a break shouldnt cause a drama either
  3. Layla Al-Magnuna New Member

    Just join a proper OSC that actually keeps running to keep you further entertained. ;) Or even start one yourself. Less drama that way perhaps, not that I would know of the drama here anyway.
  4. Jonny Ginger Tory Witch

    I am in agreeance.

    I personally think a vote should have been used. I think asking the people who visit the chat regularly concerning this issue would have been the best decision, personally. The trouble is, when senior people make decisions without consulting anybody it starts to lead to the whole "Us and them" mentality, which isn't healthy. The fact that the thread was closed within the same day it was posted was just furthering this problem, because people weren't allowed to express their views on the matter, which is just going to anger people more and have the opposite effect to the desired one.

    Personally I think making decisions without any transparency or consultation of regular members will just build resentment and at the end of the day, instead of strengthening the use of the chat, it'll make it more insignificant as people will get pissed off and not want to come anymore.

    I'm just saying I don't think its fair for people in higher power to make authoritarian decisions without at least asking people, because if thats going to be the case from now on then alot of people will really question whether they want to be here or not.
  5. Mina Member with a "past"

    I am somewhere in the middle about all this.
    I understand feelings have been hurt and people have been made to feel 'guilty' about certain people winning or not the contest and in that sense I can see why the contest should be postponed for a while in the hope that people will be more mature about it when it starts again.
    On the other hand, being one of the few people who started this contest, it makes me feel very sad and upset that some people's childish behaviour (and it doesn't matter if I like them or not, because I do) can have such an impact on the site as a whole.
    Say, for example, that a couple of the older members have a problem and they use the chat to fight and others get involved in it and it becomes like a war-zone in there...should the chat be stopped, too?
    I know my example isn't that good but it's what came to my mind right now (and I just woke up a little while ago :P).
    My point is that a site, any site, in my opinion should rise above the members' problems/pettiness/immaturity unless those things affect most of its members.
    But I believe that the huge percentage of the people here do NOT think like that, they understand the contest is a game for fun and in a way they/we're made to 'pay' for someone's tantrums.
    As for people coming to the site only for the contest I honestly don't think that's true. Sure we make an extra effort to be here for the results but that's normal and I don't consider it a bad thing..after all does everyone go to a site for the exact same reasons? Someone may be coming here to make friends, someone else to talk about eurovision and so on.
    There are members of this site who never took part in the contest and yet, they keep coming. So what if a new member makes an effort to come to chat because of the contest? I would think that's a good thing.
    Finally, I'd like to add that in the middle of some personal problems I had lately, and when I didn't really feel like talking to anyone, the contest was one of the things that kept me on here and offered me some fun...I know it sounds selfish but it's how it was.
  6. Kiewen New Member

    I feel that the 23 people taking part in edition 12 are the people - as Mina says - who "do NOT" take the contest too seriously, we see it as fun, an entertaining addition to our fortnights. A chance to have a bit of fun with some lovely people. The entire reason we want to have a contest here and not elsewhere, as Layla suggested, is because we get to do it with people we consider to be our friends, friends we have gained prior to the contest. Doing it with friends seems to be the most felicitous circumstance to do it in.

    I totally agree with Jonny. We are impassioned. An efflux from the chat seems even more inevitable to me now.
  7. Arben The Flag Lover

    whoa thx dingo, jonny for ur words...
    101% agreement
  8. Alex Identified Flying Object

    Okey guys , before the site is destroyed completely , lets make a new beginning , friendly , warm , democratic , the way we'd love it again. I think its the only solution..

    When u have a messy salad , u can't eat just the yummy parts of it. You either have to throw it to the bin , or make a new one , with the ingredients u like. IMO.

    Best salad recipy :
    Just put these ingredients in.. : friends , positive energy and fun :)
    Bon appetit
  9. Kristiina sxesov q.f

    I'm the hippie here right now - people, live in da peace! The most important here is to have fun, isn't it?
    So less drama then!

    Peace, bros 'n' sis!
  10. CTP Jass hater

    As I understand it, it is just a break from the contest, and it will return, we just don't know when. Now a break over this period of the year isn't really a problem, as Christmas for many can be a busy time. Something I DID NOT like at all was the condescending manner in which certain people have treated others in regard to this matter, referring to "us" as children who should grow up - particularly when some of the people saying that haven't always exhibited mature behaviour themselves. I always prefer it when people who bring petty disputes and the like into these things are the ones punished, not the people doing the right thing (ie, the majority). Some people have taken the contest too seriously, which is disappointing to say the least. Winning this contest, with all due respect :P isn't that important. Some people should seriously reign in their competitive streaks a bit!

    This current edition appears to have been quite harmonious, although we await the results of course! I think the rules of the contest with regards to who can enter need to be sorted. A lot of unhappiness was spread by some members complaining/bitching publicly about others who they believed were "using" the site only for the contest. Now, firstly, good manners says if you have a problem with someone, talk to them privately. Secondly, in order to avoid that, we should discuss a strategy that doesn't repel newcomers, but encourages them to take part in the site. With due respect to all... this site hasn't exactly been friendly to new people lately. The forums are far under-utilised as well. I'd like to see the forums re-arranged a bit too to place emphasis not on the contest, but on discussions etc.

    I could go on... and I could get meaner :D I will conclude that Jonny, Mina and Kiewen in particular have raised excellent points, and I agree with them.

    AND I endorse what THE Estonian said :cool:
  11. c1ask0 Napkin of death holder

    In my opinion it is a good idea to have a short break from the contest, for 2 or 3 weeks. I always thought there should have been a cap on the number of contests we have, and there was originally supposed to be a limit of one contest a month. The most important rule in such a cap would be to have a "cooling off" period after a contest, where we wait for at least a week before we can submit a song for the next contest. That way we would be allowing ourselves time to stop thinking about it for a while.

    I do want to point out, however, that discussions should be made and it is not fair to decide things for the group, particularly with a matter that concerns everyone.
  12. Almila i am what i am

    jonny,mina,kieren,chris p,chris e u have pointed out very important things in ur txts n i totally agree with u all.actually im in the middle like mina said n dont support it to become a them n us thing like jonny said.but as i really dont take it seriously-tho i love it for the same reasons u have,not competing for a while wouldnt kill me.but i wanna make smt clear:im sayin ok just because its a break moreover because its about the contest.if it had been about smt else-more serious i mean,id react totally different as we all have a right to express our feelings,make decisions,etc.we r not lambs goin with the flow ofc.even these posts leave me in the middle caus we discuss it in a great-friendly way but also make it too long.meh i dont like it,we all have a correct point but this is too much fuss.so the best explanation comes from flyer alex for me.thank u n bravo for summin up my thoughts,we really need a fresh start,actually im in need of it.plus i prefer to see my friends back instead of another edition.might not be easy but its worth trying.n finally this is not esctoday.com,we can still react,defend,discuss,etc.n most important thing is what is done or efforts for doin smt is for-us-,i believe-know.
  13. Alex Identified Flying Object

    Well , i hope u like my salad recipy :o
    Even if i cannot be a regular member anymore , i believe and hope that there must be a final and peaceful solution to the problems.

    I hope these lyrics are suitable :
    "Just remember in the winter ,
    far beneath the bitter snow ,
    lies the seed that with the sun's love ,
    in the spring becomes the rose"

    And never forget : friends always make the problems look tiny:);)
  14. Stewart SOD ME HARD AND FAST

    Can I just make it clear that I do really enjoy the contest.

    I'm not being a mean spirited old goat, I was just following orders by posting that thread and that I do agree with a little break from the contest.
  15. jw HI. I'M ADAM SCOTT.


    You know that I have chosen to take a break of indeterminable length from escChat.com, so it is somewhat annoying that whenever there is a drama I am asked to sort it out, so I hope this will be my final word on this matter. It seems a lot of you have short memories, amnesia, or both - because I distinctly remember announcing during the TENTH edition of the contest that we were unhappy with the way that a lot of people only come to chat on contest nights and leave it empty during other days, and so a hiatus was planned. This was announced after the results of the 10th Edition, in front of a full chatroom consisting of most of the participants. Noone seemed to care at the time, with the exception of Liam who asked me about the reasons, which I explained and he pretty much accepted. Despite this warning, things did not improve during the 11th Edition, so the plan has now gone ahead.

    But it seems you have conveniently forgotten this and think that this decision was taken behind closed doors without prior warning. This is not true, and in fact the matter was brought up again at the beginning of the 12th Edition by Nordic Sheep - that's why some people like Jackeroo and Eurovizz were already aware of the decision. And so the decision was recently reiterated by Stewart and that's when you all decide to complain? You had your chance earlier during the 10th Edition when the idea was first floated and rationalised.

    Secondly, it is extremely hypocritical of a lot of people who moaned about Nordic Sheep's introductory post for the 12th Edition when he 'blacklisted' certain members who didn't integrate into the site. Hypocritical because it was debated in a lot of detail previously how the contest seemed 'clinical' and unfriendly as randoms who we didn't really know were participating. So we all decided that only regulars should be able to enter. WE ALL MUTUALLY AGREED THAT. So why, when it came to actually implementing it, poor ol' Sheep got blasted about it from all sides?

    And what about the downright rude people who say it "finally feels like the contest is back again" now it's back to a Scorewiz affair among small people? The first part of that is simply rude and offensive given the amount of time and effort that went into the #7-#11 shows (and indeed some people felt people were voting for me to win again so we could continue those type of shows - yet now you suddenly prefer Scorewiz again?) - and the second part - referring to the contest being a small affair - is again hypocritical given the abuse Sheep received when he excluded certain members in the first place.

    Anyway. Why was the decision made to put the contest on hiatus? It was fine when people participated in it ALONGSIDE chat, but it seemed to have become the lifeblood of escChat.com for several people who would previously come and chat who now simply just poll in on contest days for whatever the event is, then swan off never to be seen again until next time. Or worse, certain people who just registered for the contest with no desire or attempt to integrate (you know full well who I mean).

    Furthermore, the contest has undeniably harmed the community, destroying friendships, breaking trust between some members, causing bitchiness and unnecessary gossiping with lies, generating a bad atmosphere and quite possibly scaring away potential newcomers who have no idea what is going on when they see fake countries when they expect to talk about the genuine Eurovision Song Contest.

    I'm sure the loyal people who were here for the right genuine reasons - to chat - will stick around and use the site for the reason it was created and appreciate that the contest was always an 'extra' and was never intended to take centre stage. And those who were here for the wrong reasons will leave never to return, and that is once again a good thing. We are not and never will be primarily an online song contest. Community chat will always be first. The loyal members who stick by the site will be rewarded in the New Year when the contest returns, after everybody has had a chance to reflect and hopefully appreciate the site for the values that it is meant to encompass and for the reason why it was made. Remember, we survived and chat thrived when we took the break between #6 and #7. It didn't kill the chat, in fact quite the opposite as we had many discussions about wide-ranging topics. As a result, community spirit had never been higher as we rebuilt after the two turds™ left.

    So, that is the rationale behind the decision and hopefully some people might actually remember that this was debated during the 10th Edition and so it was not just dropped on you like a bombshell without prior notice or chance to interject as some are erroneously claiming. And anyway, the purpose of an Administration team is to collectively carry out actions which are for the overall wellbeing of the site. This is one such decision, even if you don't agree with it right now. History will judge.

    But the decision has been made and will still stand. I hope the majority of you will understand and accept these reasons. And those who don't are welcome to do a Solico and leave, never to return. I certainly won't stop you. In fact, I wouldn't blame you. It's not like this is a nice place to be around lately, is it? Doesn't it tell you something when even the owner of the site chooses to step aside and take a break?

  16. Alex Identified Flying Object

    Well , there is one thing i disagree with jw. We use "shalom" most times when we meet someone. Now u should say "le hitra'ot".
    All the rest things u pointed were congratulationsable (Y)
  17. jw HI. I'M ADAM SCOTT.

    Solico Hawking would say shalom. Would you like a Menorah, sir?

    Shalom (שָׁלוֹם) (Sephardic Hebrew/Israeli Hebrew:Shalom) Ashkenazi Hebrew/Yiddish (sholem or shulem) is a Hebrew word meaning peace, completeness, and welfare and can be used idiomatically to mean both hello and goodbye.
  18. Alex Identified Flying Object

    My jew friends are liers :o
    If only Solico hadent deleted me from msn <<
  19. Arben The Flag Lover

    and WHY does it always has to end up with such a long explanation AFTERWARDS....

    cant we all have these details and infos in the first post of a thread...?

    would help a lot for the future communication...
  20. Eurovizz Member

    but now you've read JW's message haven't you? God...

    and I also agree with having a break. I can see how difficult it is for people who haven't been in the chat recently to get our point about the increase of people only coming to the chat for the contest's sake. But that is the truth and an ugly progress at the moment, it is so obvious that people only gather to the chat to look at contest news and results. Look, I just logged in now and there are 17 people on the chat - and WHY? tsk. That's even more than the amount of chatters every day this week togheter. And as JW mentioned, this obvious development was noticed and came across some of us including me when the 10th edition was ongoing.

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