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Rule change: Voting

  1. NickEmpel BURGER AND FRIES

    We first had the running order draw that changed, now EBU have announced another rule change. I'm happy with this one though. I has to do with the way votes are being calculated in Eurovision. I'll try to explain it with an example.

    Say, Bulgaria was voting. And they voted like this for Spain and Estonia.
    Spain: 10th in jury voting - 11th in televoting
    Estonia: 18th in jury voting - 7th in televoting

    Now, let's take the old format first, how were these votes calculated BEFORE:
    Spain: 1 point (Juries) + 0 points (televoting) = 1 point
    Estonia: 0 points (Juries) + 4 points (Televoting) = 4 points
    Result: Estonia gets more points than Spain from Bulgaria.

    Now, the NEW formula:
    Spain: 10th with juries + 11th in televoting = 21 (10,5 average)
    Estonia: 18th with juries + 7th in televoting = 25 (12,5 average)
    Result: Spain gets more points than Estonia from Bulgaria.

    Basically this means that every position in a jury or televoting from a certain country counts. Which, in my eyes, is a good thing. Before, there was no difference whether you were 11th with a national jury or 25th - it was 0 points, end of; televoting had to save you. Now it does make a difference!

    What do we think?
  2. Genesis2703 Pointless

    Seems like a good rule change to me. To be honest I did not even realise the old system disregarded whether someone was 11th or 25th. I just assumed that was to be considered. <<

    Just taking a random example here. With this system in place would Turkey last year have ended up in a lower place than they actually did? Considering they were very low in the jury scores
  3. NickEmpel BURGER AND FRIES

    Probably, yes. Turkey would've had more issues with the jury voting.
  4. Merjan BOSOPOFO ELSIE

    At first I think I thought it was a good idea (and yes, I do mean that). However, surely it depends on the way the other votes went as to whether Spain "gets more votes than Estonia"?

    Of course we can see that Spain have now come higher in the voting than Estonia but I can't quite accept that they have necessarily got any votes at all. Having said that, it is probably still fairer, as long as people are happy with both juries and televotes, which some are not.
  5. NickEmpel BURGER AND FRIES

    Indeed, the chance that either of them would get votes is not that big with this example, but you see how it works. It basically means a song needs to score well with both votings to do well.
  6. Norbert Welcome

    i agree ..i like this new rule :)
  7. Wiggles Administrator

    I like the change. It's traditional that countries give points only to their top 10 in the final voting, but I think that should not apply when jury and televote ranking are combined. There, position on the whole list should be taken into account, as the new rule does.
  8. adamacs RUTH DAVIDSON FOR PM.

    well, this is interesting. This is a point I have been making for a while, that the current voting structure is not necessarily reflective of the reality. I pointed out last year that although anggun got 0 points in the televote I am pretty certain that she did not come last in every country, For all we know she could have come 11th in every country.

    This goes a little way towards dealing with this, but I don't necessarily know if I totally agree with it - I would perhaps only have used it in the event of a tie break rather than as a way of allocating all points since a country could come 1st and 8th and get fewer points than a country that came 4th and 5th. Surely coming higher in one of the votes should count for more than being mediocre in both.

    I'm kind of arguing against my original point here, but an average of two numbers is inherently inaccurate - to make it work properly the full ranking would need to be aggregated across all voting countries.

    I've lost the thread now, but I hope that my ramblings make sense to someone at least
  9. Merjan BOSOPOFO ELSIE

    Maybe they should average the points rather than the positions.
  10. adamacs RUTH DAVIDSON FOR PM.

    I just don't think taking an average of two values is a fair way to do it. They are inherently inaccurate. And even then, 5 jury members ranking a song last as opposed to 30,000 people ranking it first. I honestly don't know what the right solution is, but this is not it imo. It just seems skewed, flawed, and not quite right.

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